Class 1 Girls
10/09/2021 3:54:35 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1077
Very likely with new rules, only 10 girls' teams make it to State. Is this a sign class 1 and 2 should be larger?
Very likely with new rules, only 10 girls' teams make it to State. Is this a sign class 1 and 2 should be larger?
10/10/2021 4:25:42 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
I was looking at that same exact thing last night. My math tells me 13 total. District 1 has 4 complete teams so only 3 will go. District 2 and 3 will send 4 from each. District 4 will only send 2. That is a total of 13.
I was looking at that same exact thing last night. My math tells me 13 total.
District 1 has 4 complete teams so only 3 will go.
District 2 and 3 will send 4 from each.
District 4 will only send 2. That is a total of 13.
10/10/2021 7:28:30 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 35
4 classes was plenty in my opinion. The new rule that says the largest school in a class should be no bigger than twice as big as the smallest school in a class sounds good, but doesn't work in practice. 5 classes is certainly too many and will lead to situations like class 1 girls this year more often in the future.
4 classes was plenty in my opinion. The new rule that says the largest school in a class should be no bigger than twice as big as the smallest school in a class sounds good, but doesn't work in practice. 5 classes is certainly too many and will lead to situations like class 1 girls this year more often in the future.
10/10/2021 8:37:19 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
If they only score 4 girls in class 1 it will solve a lot of problems since lots of schools only have 4 girls.
If they only score 4 girls in class 1 it will solve a lot of problems since lots of schools only have 4 girls.
10/11/2021 11:06:01 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 276
@szoughaib Some states have done exactly what you suggested, score 4 runners for the smaller classes. Its kind of like 8-man football, but for cross country.
@szoughaib

Some states have done exactly what you suggested, score 4 runners for the smaller classes. Its kind of like 8-man football, but for cross country.
10/11/2021 2:11:16 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 257
Not a bad suggestion overall, be sure to send it to your advisory member as the meeting gets closer! I will try to remember, but Will likely forget as time gets closer.
Not a bad suggestion overall, be sure to send it to your advisory member as the meeting gets closer! I will try to remember, but Will likely forget as time gets closer.
10/12/2021 10:28:02 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 30
@captain1816 The twice the enrollment cap is only for a programs original placement. With the championship factor we have small private schools moving up to be in classes with schools who MORE than double their enrollment numbers for the next 6 years...I wonder if public schools had to do the same if more folks would find this odd??
@captain1816

The twice the enrollment cap is only for a programs original placement. With the championship factor we have small private schools moving up to be in classes with schools who MORE than double their enrollment numbers for the next 6 years...I wonder if public schools had to do the same if more folks would find this odd??
10/12/2021 10:28:39 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 30
@captain1816 The twice the enrollment cap is only for a programs original placement. With the championship factor we have small private schools moving up to be in classes with schools who MORE than double their enrollment numbers for the next 6 years...I wonder if public schools had to do the same if more folks would find this odd??
@captain1816

The twice the enrollment cap is only for a programs original placement. With the championship factor we have small private schools moving up to be in classes with schools who MORE than double their enrollment numbers for the next 6 years...I wonder if public schools had to do the same if more folks would find this odd??
10/12/2021 1:58:14 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
St. Vincent boys (9-11) 105 competing against schools that have 511.
St. Vincent boys (9-11) 105 competing against schools that have 511.
10/13/2021 9:04:48 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 257
@szoughaib And a completely different team from the teams who placed at State.
@szoughaib And a completely different team from the teams who placed at State.
10/13/2021 11:27:06 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 30
@CoachTWood Yes...I know of several programs who have moved up classes because of championship factor points earned 5-6 years ago when the current team was in middle school. Seems proper to do that right? Would someone who is in favor of the championship factor point system please explain the rational behind it? I understand how it works what I am looking for is the WHY??
@CoachTWood

Yes...I know of several programs who have moved up classes because of championship factor points earned 5-6 years ago when the current team was in middle school. Seems proper to do that right?

Would someone who is in favor of the championship factor point system please explain the rational behind it? I understand how it works what I am looking for is the WHY??
10/13/2021 12:39:25 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
I am probably going to upset some people here but here goes. Yes some schools recruit but not all do. Championships are won by hard working kids that do whatever it takes to live up to the traditions set before them. Don't hate the success of some of the private schools. I am a coach at a private school who is lucky to have 7 kids want to do the sport I coach. My kids work hard and don't complain. St. Vincent had an awesome run with coach Wood at the helm. These kids busted you know what to put St. Vincent on the map. How do you reward them???? you bump them 2 classes to compete against schools 5 times larger. At my school we have a total of 135 kids 9-12. We do well because out of those kids we have 52 playing football, 26 girls doing volleyball and 19 in cross country. Do the math???? 70 plus percent of our students participate in sports. Our coaches work really hard with the hand we have been given. They claim we recruit??? I have been here at school for 29 years and I am coaching the kids of the dads that I coached many years ago. Hard work and tradition is what drives our kids. No matter what class we end up we will do our best to represent God, Family and our community.
I am probably going to upset some people here but here goes.
Yes some schools recruit but not all do. Championships are won by hard working kids that do whatever it takes to live up to the traditions set before them.
Don't hate the success of some of the private schools. I am a coach at a private school who is lucky to have 7 kids want to do the sport I coach.
My kids work hard and don't complain. St. Vincent had an awesome run with coach Wood at the helm. These kids busted you know what to put St. Vincent on the map. How do you reward them???? you bump them 2 classes to compete against schools 5 times larger.
At my school we have a total of 135 kids 9-12. We do well because out of those kids we have 52 playing football, 26 girls doing volleyball and 19 in cross country. Do the math???? 70 plus percent of our students participate in sports. Our coaches work really hard with the hand we have been given.
They claim we recruit??? I have been here at school for 29 years and I am coaching the kids of the dads that I coached many years ago.
Hard work and tradition is what drives our kids.
No matter what class we end up we will do our best to represent God, Family and our community.
10/13/2021 12:53:47 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1077
@szoughaib Not trying to be rude to the private schools. I respect them all. You just hit the nail on the head with your percentages. What kind of kids go to private schools? What kind of parents, family situations, etc...? 70% of kids participating. I will use my school for example. 10 boys run xc, 12 girls play vball, and about 30 play football. 52/400 is 13%. A little over 10% of our kids are active in our athletics. We have a 75% of our kids eligible for free and reduced lunches. We have a large percentage of students with IEPs. We, like most public schools, have a numerous kids that are ESL and have their own struggles with English. Private school advantage goes way beyond any ability that might exist to recruit. The majority of your kids are highly driven, focused, come from successful parents, etc... I agree, having your current kids compete in a larger class based upon previous success probably isn't the right answer, but, the idea that private schools don't have advantages just isn't true. We are not educating the same type of kids. Public school enrollment has to take into account all students. In comparison, if EN was a private school, we would have 280 kids out for sports. I'd love to see what we could do with 30-40 kids out each year for xc. Just something to consider, if you disagree, feel free to let me know.
@szoughaib
Not trying to be rude to the private schools. I respect them all. You just hit the nail on the head with your percentages. What kind of kids go to private schools? What kind of parents, family situations, etc...? 70% of kids participating. I will use my school for example. 10 boys run xc, 12 girls play vball, and about 30 play football. 52/400 is 13%. A little over 10% of our kids are active in our athletics. We have a 75% of our kids eligible for free and reduced lunches. We have a large percentage of students with IEPs. We, like most public schools, have a numerous kids that are ESL and have their own struggles with English. Private school advantage goes way beyond any ability that might exist to recruit. The majority of your kids are highly driven, focused, come from successful parents, etc...
I agree, having your current kids compete in a larger class based upon previous success probably isn't the right answer, but, the idea that private schools don't have advantages just isn't true. We are not educating the same type of kids. Public school enrollment has to take into account all students. In comparison, if EN was a private school, we would have 280 kids out for sports. I'd love to see what we could do with 30-40 kids out each year for xc.
Just something to consider, if you disagree, feel free to let me know.
10/13/2021 12:59:25 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 257
@esnich The championship factor is not ideal. But it was designed by the Private schools when negotiations were happening for the private school multiplier. If you have a decent solution (changing the range of years, Point totals, etc.), send them on to the advisory committee. As a member, I can hear complaints all day and take them forward, but they carry more weight when coupled with solutions we can discuss and then recommend.
@esnich

The championship factor is not ideal. But it was designed by the Private schools when negotiations were happening for the private school multiplier.

If you have a decent solution (changing the range of years, Point totals, etc.), send them on to the advisory committee. As a member, I can hear complaints all day and take them forward, but they carry more weight when coupled with solutions we can discuss and then recommend.
10/13/2021 1:04:39 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 35
I'm fine with the championship factor for private schools. I have taught in both public and private and I have seen first hand how private schools tend to have a larger percentage of kids who are involved in extracurricular activities. My main issue with the championship factor rule as it stands now is the length of time that the points affect class placement. 6 years is too long. Athletes competing today should not have to pay for the success of athletes who might be 23 years old now. I think it should be 3 years, maybe 4 years max. The championship factor was also mainly proposed by large private schools who aren't affected by it either way. It is small and medium-sized private schools who are most affected.
I'm fine with the championship factor for private schools. I have taught in both public and private and I have seen first hand how private schools tend to have a larger percentage of kids who are involved in extracurricular activities. My main issue with the championship factor rule as it stands now is the length of time that the points affect class placement. 6 years is too long. Athletes competing today should not have to pay for the success of athletes who might be 23 years old now. I think it should be 3 years, maybe 4 years max.

The championship factor was also mainly proposed by large private schools who aren't affected by it either way. It is small and medium-sized private schools who are most affected.
10/13/2021 1:27:18 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
Everyone is making some awesome points. Totally agree with 6 years is way too long. I also think 1 class bump should be plenty. If you do well after 1 class bump the bump them another class. To be a freshman coming in competing with schools way bigger will make some kids give up and quit
Everyone is making some awesome points. Totally agree with 6 years is way too long. I also think 1 class bump should be plenty. If you do well after 1 class bump the bump them another class.
To be a freshman coming in competing with schools way bigger will make some kids give up and quit
10/14/2021 9:37:31 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 32
I disagree with the rule that if only four teams compete only 3 can qualify. It should be Top 4 no matter what, unless there are only 3 or 2 or 1 teams, then they will all qualify. What happens if Covid strikes next week and takes out another team? That means in District 1 only 2 teams get to go? If you have five scoring runners then you have a team score, I do not understand the reasoning to limit qualification (up to 4) due to other schools not building a team!
I disagree with the rule that if only four teams compete only 3 can qualify. It should be Top 4 no matter what, unless there are only 3 or 2 or 1 teams, then they will all qualify. What happens if Covid strikes next week and takes out another team? That means in District 1 only 2 teams get to go?

If you have five scoring runners then you have a team score, I do not understand the reasoning to limit qualification (up to 4) due to other schools not building a team!
10/14/2021 9:45:17 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
For the record, St. Vincent girls are in class 1 district 1 and we have seen them at about 5 meets this year somehow they are not showing up in the database. The big problem will be district 4.
For the record, St. Vincent girls are in class 1 district 1 and we have seen them at about 5 meets this year somehow they are not showing up in the database. The big problem will be district 4.
10/14/2021 9:46:45 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 190
What is the rule on if you don't end up with 4 teams. If only 1 team made it before you took top 20 runners not 15. So what happens if only 2 or 3 teams make it out. Are they taking more than 30?????
What is the rule on if you don't end up with 4 teams. If only 1 team made it before you took top 20 runners not 15. So what happens if only 2 or 3 teams make it out. Are they taking more than 30?????
10/14/2021 10:20:22 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 32
Top 30 no matter what Teams Top 4 if there are 5 or more teams. Top 3 if there are only 4 Teams Top 2 if there are only 3 teams Top 1 if there are only 2 teams So literally possible that a Trophy team could be eliminated because other schools did not have a team.
Top 30 no matter what
Teams Top 4 if there are 5 or more teams.
Top 3 if there are only 4 Teams
Top 2 if there are only 3 teams
Top 1 if there are only 2 teams

So literally possible that a Trophy team could be eliminated because other schools did not have a team.

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.