Entry Fee for Districts and Sectionals
09/22/2015 8:34:19 AM
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Guessing most of the coaches received this email, but wanted to give the parents and fans a "heads up". While I understand that un-reimbursed costs (porta-potties, trainers, etc....) are accrued with Districts and Sectionals....I hate that we have to charge this to the fans. In a sport with a low number of fans anyhow, I hate to see us discourage them from attending through an admission fee. Why not just charge an "entry fee" to the teams, much like we do at every other invitational across the state? From MSHSAA: "At their September Board Meeting, the MSHSAA Board of Directors approved charging an admission price of $4.00 at all district and sectional cross country meets. This change will help to keep costs down for our member schools, as well as creating a profit-sharing opportunity for the host schools. Please inform your fans and parents of this change in MSHSAA Board Policy so that they are prepared when they arrive at the post-season meets."
Guessing most of the coaches received this email, but wanted to give the parents and fans a "heads up". While I understand that un-reimbursed costs (porta-potties, trainers, etc....) are accrued with Districts and Sectionals....I hate that we have to charge this to the fans. In a sport with a low number of fans anyhow, I hate to see us discourage them from attending through an admission fee. Why not just charge an "entry fee" to the teams, much like we do at every other invitational across the state?

From MSHSAA:

"At their September Board Meeting, the MSHSAA Board of Directors approved charging an admission price of $4.00 at all district and sectional cross country meets. This change will help to keep costs down for our member schools, as well as creating a profit-sharing opportunity for the host schools.

Please inform your fans and parents of this change in MSHSAA Board Policy so that they are prepared when they arrive at the post-season meets."
09/22/2015 8:36:39 AM
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Not a fan either. I get the state meet. I don't with these. This discourages students from attending. It's not on campus in many instances and now they have to pay for a sport unpopular in there eyes. It will discourage some from attending unfortunately. My JV team always accompanies in the postseason on the team bus. They better not try to charge them.
Not a fan either.

I get the state meet.

I don't with these.

This discourages students from attending. It's not on campus in many instances and now they have to pay for a sport unpopular in there eyes.

It will discourage some from attending unfortunately.

My JV team always accompanies in the postseason on the team bus.

They better not try to charge them.
09/22/2015 8:39:07 AM
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Definitely not a great idea! Many of our JV will be there, so hopefully MSHSAA doesn't limit our team to 10 like they do at state.
Definitely not a great idea! Many of our JV will be there, so hopefully MSHSAA doesn't limit our team to 10 like they do at state.
09/22/2015 9:31:07 AM
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Great point on the limitations....we usually bring 5-7 JV kids to run in the alternates race!
Great point on the limitations....we usually bring 5-7 JV kids to run in the alternates race!
09/22/2015 9:51:29 AM
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Surely they won't charge all of the other runners on the Cross-Country team(at districts and sectionals). I have never heard of the non starters (and many FB teams have a lot of extras that only stand and cheer along the sidelines) on a football team being charged at all of the district playoff games, quarterfinals, semifinals, etc. All class 4 CC teams (and most 1,2, and 3 teams) will have alternates, etc. and ours will actually be running the alternate/open race.... the 'standing and cheering' will be before their race. Is this plan/explanation in our 2015 manual...and I just missed it? Can any of you please reference the page number for me? We are a district host ( I just read about this on Sunday from Dean Hays' MTCCCA update.) and we have numerous parents that work extremely hard to pull off this district meet--course marshals, chute workers, selling t-shirts, back-up scorers, and the list goes on (yes, we do things the old fashioned way---we allow the coaches to coach... and our parents pull off the meet responsibilities),so I know that these folks won't be charged. There must be more info. floating around out there...so please share.
Surely they won't charge all of the other runners on the Cross-Country team(at districts and sectionals). I have never heard of the non starters (and many FB teams have a lot of extras that only stand and cheer along the sidelines) on a football team being charged at all of the district playoff games, quarterfinals, semifinals, etc. All class 4 CC teams (and most 1,2, and 3 teams) will have alternates, etc. and ours will actually be running the alternate/open race.... the 'standing and cheering' will be before their race. Is this plan/explanation in our 2015 manual...and I just missed it? Can any of you please reference the page number for me?
We are a district host ( I just read about this on Sunday from Dean Hays' MTCCCA update.) and we have numerous parents that work extremely hard to pull off this district meet--course marshals, chute workers, selling t-shirts, back-up scorers, and the list goes on (yes, we do things the old fashioned way---we allow the coaches to coach... and our parents pull off the meet responsibilities),so I know that these folks won't be charged. There must be more info. floating around out there...so please share.
09/22/2015 9:58:06 AM
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Not a fan of this idea either, for similar reasons that have been said. And as a frequent district or sectional meet host, I can tell you that we probably won't volunteer to host one of these meets again. No reasonable way to fence off and contain the course at Forest Park. Our sectional meet is at Warrenton and goes through neighborhoods--are we saying those people can't come out of their house to watch the race without paying? Silly. Coach Brian Gilmore SLUH
Not a fan of this idea either, for similar reasons that have been said. And as a frequent district or sectional meet host, I can tell you that we probably won't volunteer to host one of these meets again. No reasonable way to fence off and contain the course at Forest Park. Our sectional meet is at Warrenton and goes through neighborhoods--are we saying those people can't come out of their house to watch the race without paying? Silly.

Coach Brian Gilmore
SLUH
09/22/2015 10:02:07 AM
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We aren't hosting cross country this year, but guessing its the same as track, where all admissions are supposed to be collected and sent directly to MSHSAA. Can any of this year's hosts confirm this for cross country? Can you elect to "not collect"?
We aren't hosting cross country this year, but guessing its the same as track, where all admissions are supposed to be collected and sent directly to MSHSAA. Can any of this year's hosts confirm this for cross country? Can you elect to "not collect"?
09/22/2015 10:26:15 AM
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When I first read the email from Dean, I actually started to laugh...because anyone familiar with Cross-country and where most courses are located, would know just how hard of a task this would be(to collect admission.) In our situation, there is no possible way to enclose the entire park with orange fencing, and there are MANY entrances and ways to our course. I think that maybe they were speaking of track (?)...because we only run 1 meet all season that is close to school grounds or a stadium (where the facilities are gated and parking is more controlled). I honestly cannot say that courses that are run around school grounds normally make the best Cross-Country courses....but that's just my experience. It is rare that courses around schools don't cross a lot of concrete, roads, parking lots, etc. I would hate to think that our district and sectional course and championship qualifying course choices would start to evolve toward school grounds/courses...due to the fact that they can better collect admissions. I hope that this has been thoroughly 'thought through'...if this is even true of Cross-Country 2015.
When I first read the email from Dean, I actually started to laugh...because anyone familiar with Cross-country and where most courses are located, would know just how hard of a task this would be(to collect admission.) In our situation, there is no possible way to enclose the entire park with orange fencing, and there are MANY entrances and ways to our course. I think that maybe they were speaking of track (?)...because we only run 1 meet all season that is close to school grounds or a stadium (where the facilities are gated and parking is more controlled). I honestly cannot say that courses that are run around school grounds normally make the best Cross-Country courses....but that's just my experience. It is rare that courses around schools don't cross a lot of concrete, roads, parking lots, etc. I would hate to think that our district and sectional course and championship qualifying course choices would start to evolve toward school grounds/courses...due to the fact that they can better collect admissions. I hope that this has been thoroughly 'thought through'...if this is even true of Cross-Country 2015.
09/22/2015 10:26:17 AM
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When I first read the email from Dean, I actually started to laugh...because anyone familiar with Cross-country and where most courses are located, would know just how hard of a task this would be(to collect admission.) In our situation, there is no possible way to enclose the entire park with orange fencing, and there are MANY entrances and ways to our course. I think that maybe they were speaking of track (?)...because we only run 1 meet all season that is close to school grounds or a stadium (where the facilities are gated and parking is more controlled). I honestly cannot say that courses that are run around school grounds normally make the best Cross-Country courses....but that's just my experience. It is rare that courses around schools don't cross a lot of concrete, roads, parking lots, etc. I would hate to think that our district and sectional course and championship qualifying course choices would start to evolve toward school grounds/courses...due to the fact that they can better collect admissions. I hope that this has been thoroughly 'thought through'...if this is even true of Cross-Country 2015.
When I first read the email from Dean, I actually started to laugh...because anyone familiar with Cross-country and where most courses are located, would know just how hard of a task this would be(to collect admission.) In our situation, there is no possible way to enclose the entire park with orange fencing, and there are MANY entrances and ways to our course. I think that maybe they were speaking of track (?)...because we only run 1 meet all season that is close to school grounds or a stadium (where the facilities are gated and parking is more controlled). I honestly cannot say that courses that are run around school grounds normally make the best Cross-Country courses....but that's just my experience. It is rare that courses around schools don't cross a lot of concrete, roads, parking lots, etc. I would hate to think that our district and sectional course and championship qualifying course choices would start to evolve toward school grounds/courses...due to the fact that they can better collect admissions. I hope that this has been thoroughly 'thought through'...if this is even true of Cross-Country 2015.
09/22/2015 11:00:09 AM
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An old Andy Capp cartoon: Panel One, Flo says to the smiling Andy, "you're back early from the football match." Panel Two, Andy says, "they threw me out for creating a ruckus and gave me my money back." Panel Three, Flo says, "so what are you so happy about?" Panel Four, Andy says, "I climbed over the wall."
An old Andy Capp cartoon:
Panel One, Flo says to the smiling Andy, "you're back early from the football match."
Panel Two, Andy says, "they threw me out for creating a ruckus and gave me my money back."
Panel Three, Flo says, "so what are you so happy about?"
Panel Four, Andy says, "I climbed over the wall."
09/22/2015 11:08:59 AM
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Among other reasons why this is, in my opinion, an untenable decision: the amount of additional infrastructure needed for this to work is immense. As anyone with experience hosting a meet knows, it takes no shortage of work to get the course prepared and line up enough volunteers to help run things smoothly during the meet itself. I even think it's completely fair to say that the SLUH coaching staff [i]likes[/i] going above and beyond to create good courses and race experiences that we hope are positive for all the competitors; that's why we have so often taken on this extra burden of work over the last 10+ years. But this is too much. Coach Gilmore / SLUH
Among other reasons why this is, in my opinion, an untenable decision: the amount of additional infrastructure needed for this to work is immense.

As anyone with experience hosting a meet knows, it takes no shortage of work to get the course prepared and line up enough volunteers to help run things smoothly during the meet itself. I even think it's completely fair to say that the SLUH coaching staff likes going above and beyond to create good courses and race experiences that we hope are positive for all the competitors; that's why we have so often taken on this extra burden of work over the last 10+ years. But this is too much.

Coach Gilmore / SLUH
09/22/2015 12:09:38 PM
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Nope Coach Talley, as Coach Swift pointed out, no mistake. Got the info from my MSHSAA director, who is also a cross country coach, from the minutes of the recent MSHSAA meeting. The district meet I started last year at Grain Valley can do a better job than most and the one I started a few years back at Holden could do even a better job than that because of the way the courses are layed out. The course at Richmond where I hosted district meets when I coached, it would strictly be on the honor system because of the number of entries into the course. First year we had sectionals in track at our level, we hosted the meet and used Marshall. They have a central concession area that has the football field/track, soccer field, baseball field and tennis courts around it and one common gate to go through to get to each venue. District baseball and district tennis were going on at the same time and I think many people when they saw the $4 price for the district meets and the $5 price for the sectional became a fan of the other sports that day for a short amount of time.
Nope Coach Talley, as Coach Swift pointed out, no mistake. Got the info from my MSHSAA director, who is also a cross country coach, from the minutes of the recent MSHSAA meeting. The district meet I started last year at Grain Valley can do a better job than most and the one I started a few years back at Holden could do even a better job than that because of the way the courses are layed out. The course at Richmond where I hosted district meets when I coached, it would strictly be on the honor system because of the number of entries into the course.
First year we had sectionals in track at our level, we hosted the meet and used Marshall. They have a central concession area that has the football field/track, soccer field, baseball field and tennis courts around it and one common gate to go through to get to each venue. District baseball and district tennis were going on at the same time and I think many people when they saw the $4 price for the district meets and the $5 price for the sectional became a fan of the other sports that day for a short amount of time.
09/22/2015 2:01:11 PM
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Just received an email from MSHSAA. "At their September Board Meeting, the MSHSAA Board of Directors approved charging an admission price of $4.00 at all district and sectional cross country meets. This change will help to keep costs down for our member schools, as well as creating a profit-sharing opportunity for the host schools." So I guess our district hosts are going to be "profit-sharing"
Just received an email from MSHSAA.
"At their September Board Meeting, the MSHSAA Board of Directors approved charging an admission price of $4.00 at all district and sectional cross country meets. This change will help to keep costs down for our member schools, as well as creating a profit-sharing opportunity for the host schools."

So I guess our district hosts are going to be "profit-sharing"
09/22/2015 8:12:43 PM
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I would echo what everyone else is saying here. Just like Coach Gilmore said regarding how the SLUH staff feels about hosting a district or sectional meet, we down at Jackson feel the same way. I enjoy that we get to show off our community, our park, our course; and make it an exciting and memorable experience for the runners, coaches, and spectators. I also feel like it gives us an opportunity to show off our program to our community, many of whom have rarely if ever attended a cc meet before. What the board of directors needs to realize is that unlike other sports cross-country meets are held in more wide open areas, and more often than not the location is somewhere other than a school campus. As Coach Talley pointed out, we are hosting a district meet again this year, and due to the size and number of entrances to the park it is logistically impossible to try and charge an admission fee. Not to mention that it is a public park that on a Saturday morning would have dozens of local people using it to take a walk, go fishing, bring their children to use the playground, etc. Are we supposed to charge them too? On the flip side, last year the state picked up the tab for the use of timing companies to time and score the meet. Are they balancing that with requiring an admission fee? If so, I agree with the previous poster that suggested a team entry fee just like we pay for other meets.
I would echo what everyone else is saying here. Just like Coach Gilmore said regarding how the SLUH staff feels about hosting a district or sectional meet, we down at Jackson feel the same way. I enjoy that we get to show off our community, our park, our course; and make it an exciting and memorable experience for the runners, coaches, and spectators. I also feel like it gives us an opportunity to show off our program to our community, many of whom have rarely if ever attended a cc meet before. What the board of directors needs to realize is that unlike other sports cross-country meets are held in more wide open areas, and more often than not the location is somewhere other than a school campus. As Coach Talley pointed out, we are hosting a district meet again this year, and due to the size and number of entrances to the park it is logistically impossible to try and charge an admission fee. Not to mention that it is a public park that on a Saturday morning would have dozens of local people using it to take a walk, go fishing, bring their children to use the playground, etc. Are we supposed to charge them too?

On the flip side, last year the state picked up the tab for the use of timing companies to time and score the meet. Are they balancing that with requiring an admission fee? If so, I agree with the previous poster that suggested a team entry fee just like we pay for other meets.
09/22/2015 8:56:13 PM
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I could be wrong in my interpretation, but Dean Hays seems to be saying that admission at meets at these wide-open parks would be based purely on the honor system. If that's the case, that idea still seems pretty far-fetched to me. Brian Gilmore SLUH
I could be wrong in my interpretation, but Dean Hays seems to be saying that admission at meets at these wide-open parks would be based purely on the honor system. If that's the case, that idea still seems pretty far-fetched to me.

Brian Gilmore
SLUH
09/22/2015 10:26:22 PM
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@coach_gilmore I did not mean to imply that and do not know what guidelines MSHSAA will give to district/sectional managers but the logistics at some courses will make it difficult. Could it be do it if you can or will it be do the best you can?
@coach_gilmore
I did not mean to imply that and do not know what guidelines MSHSAA will give to district/sectional managers but the logistics at some courses will make it difficult. Could it be do it if you can or will it be do the best you can?
09/23/2015 9:23:12 AM
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@Hays We too are hosting for the second year in a row and they close the park to vehicle traffic. There are a bunch of ways you can walk into the park from where you might park. I'm not sure where an admissions set up would be. Of course people will walk around wherever it is to avoid paying, but depending on where you park many people wouldn't even know there was an admission table if they aren't a parent on the team who received word of this from a coach. This is beyond silly. I don't remember our A.D. saying the cost of hosting was some type of issue.
@Hays

We too are hosting for the second year in a row and they close the park to vehicle traffic.

There are a bunch of ways you can walk into the park from where you might park.

I'm not sure where an admissions set up would be.

Of course people will walk around wherever it is to avoid paying, but depending on where you park many people wouldn't even know there was an admission table if they aren't a parent on the team who received word of this from a coach.

This is beyond silly.

I don't remember our A.D. saying the cost of hosting was some type of issue.
09/23/2015 10:02:59 AM
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What a headache! Sounds like one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" kind of things. I wonder how many districts will be sending MSHSAA a check for $20 for xc district admission? ;) Nice to have a press pass... Lee Stubblefield freelance sportswriter
What a headache! Sounds like one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" kind of things.

I wonder how many districts will be sending MSHSAA a check for $20 for xc district admission? ;)

Nice to have a press pass...

Lee Stubblefield
freelance sportswriter
09/24/2015 10:53:36 AM
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Does any of this have to do with the Baseball fields at Lincoln University getting trashed during the State Track meet and MSHSAA having to pick up the tab? Seems so out of the blue to me. Why all of a sudden this year, and with short notice?? We are hosting a District meet with LSHS and still have no idea how we will close the course to allow only one entry point.
Does any of this have to do with the Baseball fields at Lincoln University getting trashed during the State Track meet and MSHSAA having to pick up the tab? Seems so out of the blue to me. Why all of a sudden this year, and with short notice?? We are hosting a District meet with LSHS and still have no idea how we will close the course to allow only one entry point.
09/24/2015 9:17:45 PM
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@rshortino Will you have to charge the admission on top of the parks parking fee. That will be a real poke $9 for fans to watch a 15 to 21 minute race.
@rshortino Will you have to charge the admission on top of the parks parking fee. That will be a real poke $9 for fans to watch a 15 to 21 minute race.

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